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Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19372]

Sun, 15 January 2023 20:15

KarolinaSM
Wiadomości: 6
Dołączył(a): January 2023

Junior Member

Witam!
Poszukuj� informacji o rodzicach Johanna Von Mach Milwi�ski urodzony 1703 roku w Milwinie. Jego �ona to Anna D�browska.
Z jego aktu urodzenia wynika i� ojciec nazywa� si� Johann Mach a matka Barbara. U Johanna jak i r�wnie� jego dw�jki rodze�stwa ( Anna ur1705 i Laurentius ur1709)widnieje tylko Barbara, bez nazwiska panie�skiego. Szuka�am w dost�pnej ksi�dze na familysearch z Luzina poni�ej 1703 �lub�w i nic nie znalaz�am. W aktach �lubu dzieci r�wnie� nie ma �adnej informacji. Dotar�am r�wnie� do strony niemieckiej o herbach szlachty pruskiej. Ca�e drzewo spisane od Johanna ale o jego rodzicach �adnej informacji. Uprzejmie prosz� o porad� z kt�rej strony chwyci� temat by ich odnale��.

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19382 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19372]

Wed, 25 January 2023 21:59

Wolfgang
Wiadomości: 24
Dołączył(a): April 2020

Junior Member

Witam,

Hello, I will write in english.
The question is not easy.
In 1648 Milwino was divided into 2 Parts:
Pan Dobrzewinski , Pan Milwinscy
In 1662 we find:
Woyciech Milwinski and Piotr Mielwinski (that might be Piotr Zelewski)
In 1682 Milwino was divided into 3 parts:
Jan Milwinski, Wojciech Lebinski, Piotr Zelewski

Next we find in the church book of Lusin: Baptizm
*17.05.1660 Albert, p: Albert Milwinski et Zusanna
* 01.01.1664 Anastasia, p: Albert Milwinski et Zusanna
*24.12.1679 Zusanna, p: Nob. Joannes Milwinski et Zusanna
* 21.08.1682 Jacobus p: Nob. Joannes Milwinski et …
I guess the father of Joannes Mach (Milwinski) is this Albert = Woyciech Milwinski. That has to be proven if we can find his baptizm. My search is not complete because I was looking up other familiy names. It is important withe the nobels to think about their possession.

Best regards

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19383 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19382]

Thu, 26 January 2023 13:29

KarolinaSM
Wiadomości: 6
Dołączył(a): January 2023

Junior Member

Hello!
I found the baptism certificate of Johannes Mach Milwi�ski from 1703, it can be found on the familysearch website in the books from Luzin. There he writes that his father is Johann Mach and his mother Barbara and nothing more. I also found a book available on Google called Archiv f�r Stamm- und Wappenkunde. The descendants of Johannes are listed there. But there is no information about his parents. And information: When West Prussia was attacked in 1772, as shown by the old couple in the Secret State Archives in Berlin, Johann v. Mach of Mellwin, † 1773, swore allegiance to hereditary education as a nobleman for himself and his descendants, and thus found Auinaline in the Prussian nobility.
I have written to the above-mentioned Berlin Archive for information on this matter. I am waiting for a response.
I wonder if "Mach" is a nickname or "Milwinski". If Johanses' father had been Albert, Mach would have been a nickname.
Best Regards

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19385 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19383]

Thu, 26 January 2023 22:29

Wolfgang
Wiadomości: 24
Dołączył(a): April 2020

Junior Member

Hello,

thanks for the answer. I know the baptizm record too. The information about Mach in "Archiv f�r Stamm- und Wappenkunde" were based on the information of the Geheimes Staatsarchiv in Berlin (GStA PK). I know these information. You will find no earlier Information than the Joannes Mach 1703 in this dokuments.
Mach or Milwinski is a old question. The old familiy name is Mach. In the polisch tradition the nobles use a typical possession name. Like the owner of Milwino = Milwin + ski = Milwinski. After 1526 when King Sigismund of Poland signed the nobel rights of the local knights it was more popular to use the name after the polisch tradition. Dr. Wojciech K�trzynski classified them as „Przydomki“ but this is a mistake from my prospective. But there is a difference understanding in polish or german history mention. Most of these names are the old local (kashubian) names. That means not Mach is german because it sounds like. You will find the Mach Family ealier also in Pommerania (East Pommerania). A lot to do. Perhaps I will have a closer lock to the baptizm records.

Best regards

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19390 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19385]

Fri, 27 January 2023 21:31

Wolfgang
Wiadomości: 24
Dołączył(a): April 2020

Junior Member

Hello,

I thought about the item and had alook into the church books.

We find no information about a wedding of Joannes Mach Milwiski.
Also I get no sign about a baptism of him.
Next no sign of a familiy name of his wife Barbara.
That looks not so nice.

We have the item to have also no sign in the old church books of Wejerowo or Zarnowitz that can cover this time period. All other possible church books are not existing any more. e.g. Gora, Strzepcz or Roslazin. Neither any other books from the Lebork area. So we need so assumptions:
We find Albert Milwinski with two baptisms in 1660 and 1664.
He was also sometimes a godparent
In 1679 and 1682 we get a Johannes Milwinski with two baptimsms.
So it is possible that Albert is the father of Johannes. And the Johannes can be possibly the same person than the father of the two childs in 1679 and 1682.
A sign for this theory is that a Joannes Milwinski, or Mach is a witness in 1689, 1694 and 1699 in Milwino at weddings of other persons. It is common that a land ower is a witness.
An other sign is that Anastasia Machowna virgo and Joannes Mach were godparents in 1695. Anastasia was a daughter of Albert Milwinski. Her wedding was 1702.
What is a little bit tricky? We have two lines of Mach Milwinski in Milwino: Joannes & Barbara (oo ~1700) and Ernst & Sophia Szembekowa (oo 1715). We know nothing about the ancestors of Ernst.
Without any new sources we can not solve this questions.
One more remark: The Mach family is more widespread in the area of Lebork. But we have no early sources. Also the Mach familiy as well as other kashubian nobels are partly not catholic in the 17th. century. We find a ex lutheran Nob. Barbara Milwinska 1708 in the church book of Luzin. And lutheran church books are not available.

A lot of words for explanation. I hope you will get a little bit help.
Best regards

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19391 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19390]

Fri, 27 January 2023 22:14

KarolinaSM
Wiadomości: 6
Dołączył(a): January 2023

Junior Member

Hello!
Thank you very much for help! Basically, this is my husband's family. And I have a theory. Weddings usually took place where the bride was from. In my family there were two cases where the wedding was taken in a different province than he lived and the groom was born because his wife did not come from his area. Maybe Barbara wasn't from Pomerania either, so we can't find her marriage to Johann. I'm also wondering if there aren't any land registers, notarized before 1700. Perhaps there would be additional information in them.
Best regards

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19392 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19391]

Sat, 28 January 2023 12:22

Wolfgang
Wiadomości: 24
Dołączył(a): April 2020

Junior Member

Hello and Good Morning,

yes we have a lot of weddings between the east pommeraian area and Prus Krolewskie because under the german knights the area Puck and Lebork was united. So the nobles do not see any reason why to respect the border. Also it was not unusual to marry between the diffent religions. More importand was always the familiy relations and the property.
Before 1700 we will find no landregisters. The original land title register since the prussian time in 1772 was destroyed in 1945 in Kwidzyn. In this register the nobels place also old certificates. A rough summery was published in 1911. [Dr. Max B�r, Der Adel und der Adelige Grundbesitz in polnisch – Preussen zur Zeit der preussischen Besitzergreifung, Leipzig Verlag von S.Hirsel 1911]. You will find the titel online on polish servers. But for Milwino [Page 157] you will find no information before 1700. So in the original book there was also no information. But is a very very big pitty for all researchers that the land title register was lost. So we have the tax registers. 1570 [publisched - Baranowski]; 1648 [published - K�trzy�ski , Dr. Wojciech]; 1682 [published - K�trzy�ski Dr. Stanislaw]; We have some more sources but this a hard work to find and to translate. Thats something for professional guys.

Pozdrawiam

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19393 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19392]

Sat, 28 January 2023 12:32

Wolfgang
Wiadomości: 24
Dołączył(a): April 2020

Junior Member

Hello,

a good overview about sources and background you will get in the book from Pragert, Przemys�aw; Herbarz Szlachty Kaszubskiej under Mach[Tom 1] and Milwinski [Tom 2].

Pozdrawiam

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19395 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19393]

Mon, 30 January 2023 18:11

KarolinaSM
Wiadomości: 6
Dołączył(a): January 2023

Junior Member

Thank you for your help ! In the meantime, he writes back to me the archive from Germany. The archive has in its resources " Homage to the inhabitants of West Prussia 1772-3 " . Do you know anything about this book? I'm wondering if this item should also be watched to bring the family history closer.

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19396 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19395]

Mon, 30 January 2023 21:35

Wolfgang
Wiadomości: 24
Dołączył(a): April 2020

Junior Member

Hello,
Some more information and answer to your question:
The homage of the inhabitants of West Prussia is a big book were for each noble is a page with the unwritten oath (homage). All “ West – Prussian” nobles which underlined the homage, were than Prussian Nobles and can use the German “von” as the attribute of a noble. All three owers of Milwino stayed in Malbork for the homage at the 27. September 1772. Frederik the second, king of Prussia was not there. Not all nobles went to the homage. All who stayed there got a silver medal. https://www.kuenker.de/de/archiv/stueck/131899 The homage is a printed page with the signature of the each person. There is a original and a copy for the acts. So no more information than a signature form 1772.What is more interesting is the contribution cataster of 1773. This is online, and you will get a lot of detailed information about the property.This documents are not the original (these were destroyed 1945 in Danzig) but this was a copy for the acts. Later the Marburg List was copied, or the list in Torun. Later the Marburg copy was the input for the well known Odessa list in the internet. So the list at the GSt PKA in Berlin is the nearest to the original. Link: https://dfg-viewer.de/show?id=9&tx_dlf%5Bid%5D=https%3A% 2F%2Farchivdatenbank.gsta.spk-berlin.de%2Fmidosasearch-gsta% 2FMidosaSEARCH%2Fii_ha_gd_abt_9%2Fmets%2FII.%2520HA%2520GD%2 52C%2520Abt.%25209%252C%2520Tit.%252093%2520Nr.%252022%2520B d.%25201%2Fxml_with_content.xml%2FGStA_ii_ha_gd_abt_9_2_77%2 FGStA_ii_ha_gd_abt_9_II_HA_GD_Abt_9_Polizeiverwaltung_Tit_93 _Nr_22_Band_1%2FII.%2520HA%2520GD%252C%2520Abt.%25209%252C%2 520Polizeiverwaltung%2520Tit.%252093%2520Nr.%252022%2520Band %25201%250A%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%252 0%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520%2520& ;amp ;amp ;amp ;tx_dlf%5Bpage%5D=208

Starting Point: Page 208 (in the PDF viewer in the original page 110)
Page 209 (111) => Owner of Milwino : Zelewski, Mach, Tempski and their contribution to the Prussian crone
Page 211 (113) => Calculation on which base is the contribution
Page 213 (114) => Examination over the village after a fixed catalogue of questions
Page 220 (118) => Table of the households an the property
Page 222 (119) => Economical summary

Best regards

[Uaktualnione dnia: Mon, 30 January 2023 21:38]

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19397 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19396]

Mon, 30 January 2023 22:20

KarolinaSM
Wiadomości: 6
Dołączył(a): January 2023

Junior Member

Hello
I have to write everything down. This contribution cataster shows Micha� and Jan. According to the records, Micha� (1740) was the first son, and Jan (1741) the second son of Johann Von Mach Milwi�ski. And in Tax Tariffs of Prussian Lands of 1682; Three rural wolfhounds are visible 2x Jan Mach under the village of Potyazy and Milwino Jan Milwi�ski. At the same time, I got lost. It looks like there were two Johns earlier.

Best regards

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19399 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19397]

Thu, 02 February 2023 21:14

Wolfgang
Wiadomości: 24
Dołączył(a): April 2020

Junior Member

Hello,
I collected some more information and will come up with a hypothesis.

1662 we had in Milwino two noble owners: Woyciech Milwinski and Piotr Mielwinski. The second Piotr Mielwinski was Piotr Zelewski because we know him since 1663 from the church book in Lusin. Also we find no Piotr Milwinski.
Albert = Albrecht = Woyciech Milwinski married 1651 in Mechau Generosa Zusanna Klanicka. With her, he had two known children 1660 Albert and 1664 Anastasia. However, there were perhaps more children, we do not know where to find.

1682 Albert was death and Joannes (Jan), Wojciech Lebinski and Piotr Zelewski were the owners of Milwino. So Joannes Milwinski was probable the son of Albert. That would be feasible when he was born between 1652 – 1655. Joannes married Susanna N.N. We know two children from the church book Susanna 1679 and Jacob 1682.

The son Jacob also referred to Ernst Mach Milwinski who married 1715 the not noble Sophia Szembekowa in Lusin.
Joannes married a second time before 1703 Barbara N.N. and had with her four children. Joannes 1703, Anna 1705, Laurentius 1709, and Susanna.

After the death of Joannes the Milwinski part of property Milwino was divided. First the later called part B => Jacob or Ernst Mach Milwinski and second part D Joannes Milwinski. The successor of Ernst was Joachim Ernst Mach Milwinski born 1724. The successor of Johannes was Michael Mach Milwinski born 1739.

Joachim Ernst Mach Milwinski died early before 1765 and he had no male heir. The daughter Catharina v. Mach married Michael v. Studzinski in 1776. Later 1805 they sold part B to Anton v. Mach.

Michael v. Mach married Eva v. Miszewska and had a son Anton who got the part Milwino D and bought 1805 also part B.

The homage 1772 was done only by Michael Mach Milwinski for the whole family. Also in the contribution cataster 1773 we find only him and his father. The property of the other branch of the family was added to him. Also in the “Vassallentabellen” 1774 we find only Michael v. Mach with his son Anton. The other part of the family do not exist because Johann v. Tempski the owner of Milwino part C was the guardian of the Mach Milwinski sisters of part B.

That is all. It might be a solution for the first question.

Best regards

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Odp: Poszukuję informacji o Johannie Von Mach Milwiński [wiadomość #19420 jest odpowiedzią na wiadomość #19399]

Sat, 11 February 2023 22:27

KarolinaSM
Wiadomości: 6
Dołączył(a): January 2023

Junior Member

Thank you very much for your help! I have one more question. Can I find their nobility anywhere? I mean full confirmation. I read on one of the websites that when there is such a division, the place is called "farm nobility".

Best regards

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